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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 15:20:26 GMT -5
Not really from me at least.
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Post by ravenwood on Aug 21, 2014 11:04:07 GMT -5
I dont mean to honk admin's horn, but Communism isn't about repression and corruption.
Technically (I say this because its never actually been implemented) its about there not being any social classes. People say its about having equal pay and equal everything, but that's stupid. A garbage man earning the same as a neurosurgeon will never work.
What Communism does is basically reduce the gaps in society. You don't have equal pay, you just don't see astoundingly different salaries.
Communism also advocates more government, because under Communism, the people are technically the government. However, that doesn't mean the government becomes an oligarchy or something, it just means it regulates more things and socializes more stuff, like health care. The guy that came up with this, Marx, said that the worker class essentially overthrows the rich people and becomes instantly happy. That sounds dumb, but it makes some sense once you think about it.
Tl;dr: Communism isn't what you think it is.
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Post by Total Reverse on Aug 22, 2014 0:58:26 GMT -5
I dont mean to honk glorious leader's horn, but Communism isn't about repression and corruption. Technically (I say this because its never actually been implemented) its about there not being any social classes. People say its about having equal pay and equal everything, but that's stupid. A garbage man earning the same as a neurosurgeon will never work. What Communism does is basically reduce the gaps in society. You don't have equal pay, you just don't see astoundingly different salaries. Communism also advocates more government, because under Communism, the people are technically the government. However, that doesn't mean the government becomes an oligarchy or something, it just means it regulates more things and socializes more stuff, like health care. The guy that came up with this, Marx, said that the worker class essentially overthrows the rich people and becomes instantly happy. That sounds dumb, but it makes some sense once you think about it. Tl;dr: Communism isn't what you think it is. I'm a little insulted that you thought I didn't know what Communism is abot or who the creator was. In my earlier post, I meant that Communism hasn't ever really been implemented effectively. And when a Communist government says "Each nail factory must produce 100 tons of nails" the nail factory is going to make larger nails because it's easier and faster (plus they have a deadline). Then there are less small nails needed for furniture and carpentry, so the quality of those goods goes down. |
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Post by urbanknight4 on Aug 22, 2014 7:57:23 GMT -5
I know that there's a big huge problem with Communism, and that is lack of motivation. Nobody wants to work in a place where you're limited. The workers might be happy for a bit, knowing that their masters no longer exploit them, but then greed factors in and people want to have more than what they have. Or maybe it's not greed, it's honest ambition. It doesn't matter, because either way Communism won't be effective.
I chose Communism, but I disagree with a lot of things. A great economy has to be equal, but not radically so. Yes, people will earn much more than others. That is natural. But social classes (the upper class, the eternal poor) need to go. The government also needs to take more responsibility for effectively administrating and monitoring the economy; it can't just sit back and let "the invisible hand" do it.
The government should break up monopolies, set strict regulations, punish offenders severely, and limit people's greed. But it should also have the freedom to make your own business, do whatever you want, and earn as much as is beneficial to society.
I don't know what economy that is, but it's certainly not Capitalism. In capitalism the strongest survives, and while that's actually good, the strongest prevent others from being strong as well, which is bad.
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Post by Total Reverse on Aug 22, 2014 22:56:34 GMT -5
I know that there's a big huge problem with Communism, and that is lack of motivation. Nobody wants to work in a place where you're limited. The workers might be happy for a bit, knowing that their masters no longer exploit them, but then greed factors in and people want to have more than what they have. Or maybe it's not greed, it's honest ambition. It doesn't matter, because either way Communism won't be effective. I chose Communism, but I disagree with a lot of things. A great economy has to be equal, but not radically so. Yes, people will earn much more than others. That is natural. But social classes (the upper class, the eternal poor) need to go. The government also needs to take more responsibility for effectively administrating and monitoring the economy; it can't just sit back and let "the invisible hand" do it. The government should break up monopolies, set strict regulations, punish offenders severely, and limit people's greed. But it should also have the freedom to make your own business, do whatever you want, and earn as much as is beneficial to society. I don't know what economy that is, but it's certainly not Capitalism. In capitalism the strongest survives, and while that's actually good, the strongest prevent others from being strong as well, which is bad. Socialism is the closest government to the one you described. A few European countries use it, and they seem to be doing perfectly well. A Republic might also be good if done right, such as South Korea. |
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Post by urbanknight4 on Aug 23, 2014 9:57:48 GMT -5
The thing is, communism and socialism and capitalism aren't a form of government per se. They're economic systems. Just as you can have dictatorial communism, you can have democratic communism.
It's a shame that nobody has implemented communism the right way- letting people be free, but equal. Instead, all the so called communists have taken away civil liberties and used the massive industrial potential of the system to give themselves airs of "superpower countries".
A system like the Roman republic was effective, but still had class differences like patricians and plebeians. A good government would eliminate much of those differences while keeping freedom.
Maybe the Roman Empire was better? An emperor that is kept in check by a senate, whom is kept in check by the emperor himself?
Or perhaps tetrarchs instead of a single emperor. Whatever gives the most stability and progress towards the full realization of the idea: a free country devoid of class differences with a sound economy.
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Post by Total Reverse on Aug 23, 2014 16:53:54 GMT -5
The thing is, communism and socialism and capitalism aren't a form of government per se. They're economic systems. Just as you can have dictatorial communism, you can have democratic communism. It's a shame that nobody has implemented communism the right way- letting people be free, but equal. Instead, all the so called communists have taken away civil liberties and used the massive industrial potential of the system to give themselves airs of "superpower countries". A system like the Roman republic was effective, but still had class differences like patricians and plebeians. A good government would eliminate much of those differences while keeping freedom. Maybe the Roman Empire was better? An emperor that is kept in check by a senate, whom is kept in check by the emperor himself? Or perhaps tetrarchs instead of a single emperor. Whatever gives the most stability and progress towards the full realization of the idea: a free country devoid of class differences with a sound economy. There will always be classes. They only way to make a completely classes system is to make every single person exactly the same. A goal of government should be to make the differences between classes as unnoticeable as possible, but it won't be able to eleminate classes. |
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Post by urbanknight4 on Aug 23, 2014 17:50:18 GMT -5
I can live with that.
Also, what method/policy do you think would be best for dealing with corruption? Be creative, there aren't many limits if this is your nation.
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Post by Total Reverse on Aug 23, 2014 20:37:11 GMT -5
I can live with that. Also, what method/policy do you think would be best for dealing with corruption? Be creative, there aren't many limits if this is your nation. Simple. Change officials often, get the public involved, and basically let the public run said government. |
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Post by urbanknight4 on Aug 23, 2014 21:41:57 GMT -5
Any thoughts for punishment?
I think being harsh makes sure that officials at least think twice before they cross the line.
There also has to be a way to keep officials from covering for each other and forming a "super elite" that keeps the public in the dark.
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Post by ravenwood on Aug 27, 2014 17:51:45 GMT -5
I'm a little insulted that you thought I didn't know what Communism is abot or who the creator was. In my earlier post, I meant that Communism hasn't ever really been implemented effectively. And when a Communist government says "Each nail factory must produce 100 tons of nails" the nail factory is going to make larger nails because it's easier and faster (plus they have a deadline). Then there are less small nails needed for furniture and carpentry, so the quality of those goods goes down. Sorry about that, I didn't mean to insult you. To be honest, I don't like Communism (at least, not as much as admin) I believe that Capitalism can do fine as long as the government ceases to be corrupt and stops pandering to the large companies. One thing that particularly shocked me was that the reason that Central America (excluding Mexico) is so messed up today is partially because of American business expansion. American pressured Panamanian separatists to secede from Colombia even though Panama was not even stable enough to be independent solely for the fact that the US needed the Panama Canal and rights to it. American supported various dictator regimes like Batista's rule in Cuba and a long series of military juntas in Guatemala and such. Their US got fertile land and other privileges from those alliances. I'm not saying the government is like this now. I'm just saying we need to open our eyes and let the people decide what they want, and solve our problems within before we dip our fingers elsewhere. Uh, it just occurred to me that I didn't say what my perfect gov would be. I'd say that a perfect country would be something small with a representative democracy, and maybe Capitalism as the economic center. I'm not in favor of Communism but elements of Socialism (like Canada, eh?) could be good. |
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Post by Bobbyjoeangus43 on Aug 27, 2014 21:29:37 GMT -5
I'm a little insulted that you thought I didn't know what Communism is abot or who the creator was. In my earlier post, I meant that Communism hasn't ever really been implemented effectively. And when a Communist government says "Each nail factory must produce 100 tons of nails" the nail factory is going to make larger nails because it's easier and faster (plus they have a deadline). Then there are less small nails needed for furniture and carpentry, so the quality of those goods goes down. Sorry about that, I didn't mean to insult you. To be honest, I don't like Communism (at least, not as much as glorious leader) I believe that Capitalism can do fine as long as the government ceases to be corrupt and stops pandering to the large companies. One thing that particularly shocked me was that the reason that Central America (excluding Mexico) is so messed up today is partially because of American business expansion. American pressured Panamanian separatists to secede from Colombia even though Panama was not even stable enough to be independent solely for the fact that the US needed the Panama Canal and rights to it. American supported various dictator regimes like Batista's rule in Cuba and a long series of military juntas in Guatemala and such. Their US got fertile land and other privileges from those alliances. I'm not saying the government is like this now. I'm just saying we need to open our eyes and let the people decide what they want, and solve our problems within before we dip our fingers elsewhere. Uh, it just occurred to me that I didn't say what my perfect gov would be. I'd say that a perfect country would be something small with a representative democracy, and maybe Capitalism as the economic center. I'm not in favor of Communism but elements of Socialism (like Canada, eh?) could be good. Canada, eh? Free health care, eh? Mooses, eh? Tim Horton's, eh? I just proved our superiority over all the Earth. |
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Post by Total Reverse on Aug 28, 2014 2:48:58 GMT -5
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to insult you. To be honest, I don't like Communism (at least, not as much as glorious leader) I believe that Capitalism can do fine as long as the government ceases to be corrupt and stops pandering to the large companies. One thing that particularly shocked me was that the reason that Central America (excluding Mexico) is so messed up today is partially because of American business expansion. American pressured Panamanian separatists to secede from Colombia even though Panama was not even stable enough to be independent solely for the fact that the US needed the Panama Canal and rights to it. American supported various dictator regimes like Batista's rule in Cuba and a long series of military juntas in Guatemala and such. Their US got fertile land and other privileges from those alliances. I'm not saying the government is like this now. I'm just saying we need to open our eyes and let the people decide what they want, and solve our problems within before we dip our fingers elsewhere. Uh, it just occurred to me that I didn't say what my perfect gov would be. I'd say that a perfect country would be something small with a representative democracy, and maybe Capitalism as the economic center. I'm not in favor of Communism but elements of Socialism (like Canada, eh?) could be good. Canada, eh? Free health care, eh? Mooses, eh? Tim Horton's, eh? I just proved our superiority over all the Earth. Dem " Mooses" dough...... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:56:32 GMT -5
Urban, why do you want communism?
Also I need to ask which side you go then.
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Post by urbanknight4 on Aug 28, 2014 11:56:35 GMT -5
Urban, why do you want communism? Also I need to ask which side you go then. what side are you talking about? If its capitalism vs communism I'm not too sure. I like capitalism, but as an early system used for growing nations. As the nation becomes richer and more organized, the government needs to regulate more things and prevent the citizens from infringing each other's rights and such, and give new enterprises a chance (socialism). After that, it's up to the people. Are they responsible and stable enough for Communism? In order to have it, people need to understand it. It's not about restricting freedom or anything, it's about minimizing social class gaps, feeding the poor and keeping the rich in line, making sure the means to production are public (meaning that monopolies can't be formed) and stuff like that. My interpretation of Communism is different than what it is, but I think it's a better version than what Stalin had (everyone earns the same) and a closer thing to what Marx wanted (opportunity and equality for all, not just a select few) |
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